Transcription, EPISODE 2:

Girl on fire (Norah Yang)

August 29, 2019

Listen to Norah’s episode (available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Himalaya and Google Play) and hear her full story from our “All or Nothing” 2017 live show.

Clara Davis: You're listening to Unravel (the podcast!), where we go behind and beyond stories featured at our monthly live show.  From Shanghai, I’m your host, Clara Davis.

STORY CLIP 1:

Norah Yang: People in China believe that once you hit thirty, marriage should be your only priority. And for some reason after 30, the word “I” disappears from girls mouth like a guy disappearing from bed after a night of fun.  Instead of “I” girls will use words like, “we”, “us”, or “our family” which refers to the husband and the kids.

I told myself, okay once I hit 30, I would just stop trying any new things because that's purely for myself.  I will focus on settling down, and as with all the settling downs I need a bachelorette party. I need one last adventure, a super crazy one—because this is all or nothing. And I remember this seven-day crazy survival challenge in the desert which I heard about two years ago, so I bought tickets for Burning Man, and also round trip flights to the U.S. without looking into any details. So, when arrived in Black Rock City I had to keep myself from screaming at the top of my lungs because I was so, so excited.

Clara Davis: Today's episode features Norah Yang, a stand-up comedian born and raised in Shanghai who planned a solo trip to Burning Man as a last hurrah as she approached her 30th birthday.  For those of you who haven’t felt ‘the burn’, I count myself among you, Burning Man is an annual event held in the desert of Nevada that’s all about artistic self-expression, community, inclusion, bringing together all sorts of people, ideas, experiences and it’s also one big party.  Norah had no idea what to expect when she touched down in Black Rock City, but she knew what she was looking for an adventure to get out of her system before she buckled down, found herself a partner and lived away her parents expected her to. After listening to her story, I wanted to know why she decided on Burning Man, and I wanted to learn more about the pressure she felt about settling down.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Norah, you'll hear her reflections on Burning Man, her insight into the burgeoning stand-up comedy scene in China and more of her account of that fateful festival throughout the episode...

START OF INTERVIEW:

Clara Davis: The story you told at Unravel is about Burning Man, pretty crazy story

Norah Yang: Yeah.

CD: Obviously, we understand that you identified that as something that was on a bucket list for you, but it seems like a pretty crazy item to make your bucket list.  Can you tell us what put Burning Man on your radar and why? What gave you the courage to do that, as opposed to any other number of wild things you could have done?

NY: I've always been trying to be adventurous and different and try new things.  But Burning Man was out of my radar because it was too crazy. I'm not a person with a lot of surviving skill set.  I'm really, really dependent. But the trigger was that I broke up with my boyfriend, and then it was sort of emotional abusive in a way and then I was really in a bad situation mentally, after that and I was like, I wanted to break up with the old me; also that was the time I just started to do stand-up, so I really actually wanted to try stand-up abroad.

It was just always too dangerous, but not at that point. It seems like that bit of danger is exactly the reason why I wanted to pick it because I wanted to get out of my comfort zone.

CD: It seems like stand-up has definitely seen a rise in Shanghai, in wider China, or just Shanghai?

NY: I would say in wider China, the frequency of shows or opening has increased a lot. A year ago, for one week, you will have maybe one to two or two to three Chinese open mics or shows all together. Now you have one, two, three, open mics, or shows per night.

There's clubs that would do bilingual there's also clubs that will do Chinese.  With those happening, you attract more people as an audience and they attract more people to try as open micer and it kind of incubates more comedians. But the most vigorous cities are still Shanghai, Beijing, maybe a bit of Shenzhen and Chengdu.  Smaller or lower tier cities are still facing the desert of stand up comedy there.
CD: How do you find just being a woman and doing stand-up comedy?

NY: I will say that in China, including the stand-up in Chinese less than 10% of the comedians are female.  A lot of females fear that they will not get laughs, which is called losing face in Chinese. So they don't want to be on stage unless they are confident with the material, which is really hard because all the mature material, has to be practiced several times. And then the second thing is females tend to blame themselves while males tend to blame others. There's actually always as many new female comedians as new male comedians, coming in every week, however the new girls, they always dropped. And then they will tell me after once or twice that, “Oh, I'm really not funny, I've tried it twice, but nobody laughed, I should really quit.”

But all the new guys, most of them will stay and then they be like, "Oh, people don’t laught because they're a bad audience. It's not because of me my jokes are awesome. They'll keep coming back and some of them will finally get the trick and then they will become a better comedian.

CD: What do you think it is about your personality that allows you to…

NY: Stay in the industry?

CD: Yeah, to conquer that? 

NY: Yeah, I would say family.  My dad is a very funny person, himself. He actually tried open mic as well in Chinese as the oldest open mic-er ever.  And then the second thing is, ever since I started I got really good feedback from fellow comedians. They would tell me it's not as easy as what you think, so you have to practice, you have to do this and that.  Once you start to get some laughs, you will become more confident and you can continue to do this.

CD: How do we get more women in comedy, to be louder, more active.  What's your prognosis? 

NY: The real advice is just do it like the Nike slogan, they just have to do it.  But I find if you have a partner that together with you in the process, it's easier for women to go.  If they're a very good female comedian, that you kind of admire and if you can get advice from her—whether it’s officially or unofficially, then it's more likely that, that person will be able to come back.  Because they feel supported; they just need the confidence and that positive reinforcement. 

And also if people are not comfortable with English, that’s fine they can try Chinese.  But that's a funny thing; I see quite a few Chinese female comedian that do comedy only in English.  And I went to them and I was like, “You're really funny. Why don't you also try Chinese?” 
They’re like, “No, I don't wanna do that because I feel like if I say in English, it's a stage persona, people won't judge it, but I do it in Chinese, they're like: Oh, she is like that.”

They are kind of hiding behind the language to mask themselves.

STORY CLIP 2:

Norah Yang: The third one was also a one man show at the center camp. And people before my were reciting poems...or you know, just sharing the story at the burn.  And it's more like spiritual listening than the usual comedy club. And there are also people practicing yoga and meditation at the corner of the camp. So once I get onto the stage, I started to share my joke and the people came to come closer.

Two friends came to me and they were like, "Oh my god. Norah, you're so funny.  We just love it, we love China too last time we were in Tokyo, oh my god it was amazing.”

I was flattered, I was like, "Oh my God, honey, where are you from?”

They go, “Oh, my god, we're locals, we’re from here!”

So that moment, I realized there are still a lot of people there, don't understand about China.  There's value in my voice. 

Clara Davis: Norah performed multiple sets during her time at Burning Man and each one taught her something special about herself and about the value of her voice.  She talked to me about how she uses comedy as a tool to tackle some of the heavier topics, how it's given her a language in a platform to connect with people in a new way and the double standards she encounters forging her own path, in a country that is caught between its long standing traditions, and its rapid growth.

INTERVIEW:

Clara Davis: You use comedy as a tool to talk about really serious or important topics, what do you feel like you get out of using that type of material in a stand-up comedy routine?

Norah Yang: I feel like if you can approach it in the personal and light way that you get a strong resignation from audience. 

CD: Yeah.

NY: Because everybody feels the pain, but they cannot demonstrate it.  I have a new material, which is about...I don't think it's fair that women are responsible for looking pretty.  In the animal world—usually—it's the male animal who need to be pretty.  

Especially in China, I feel like in other countries, you see a lot of straight guys in the gym.  But [laughs] then in China, they were just like, "Oh we don't need to be good looking. We just need to be rich!”

That's not true if you cannot even manage your body, who can?  If you don't want to look attractive, why should I look attractive?

My dad told me once, guys only like you as a girlfriend, but they don’t want a wife who is stronger and more persuasive and then who’s clamoring on stage. That's so scary.  He's like, you can only find a guy who is not Chinese, because a Chinese would never accept that.

CD: Do you agree with that, do you think that's true?

NY: I don't think that's true for sure.  But I just feel very sad, when my dad told me about that, because my dad is always the most understanding.  I'm very shocked that he will still say that to me, which means he also agrees that a woman should be weaker in a relationship than the man, in the marriage.

In the less educated area, people still have the stupid idea that boy is better than girl; so they prefer to have a boy.  That leads to the inability of the social pressure, which is men want to find a woman but because women are getting better and they're good at everything they want a capable man. So they have a higher standard, leaving a lot of men unmarried and unwanted. 

We are forced to accept the idea that women need to get married, so then more men can have a stable family, so they don't do anything stupid.  Because China is I will say—both a traditional and modern country, some part of thinking is still very traditional. It leads to the situation that in the society we have a lot of so-called “left-over women”; having a very good job, living a very high standard life, but also have a high standard for a partner.

While, the men are like, “Oh, but you are not young anymore…”  Which means you are older than 25! [laughs] And so, those women don't want to settle, those men don’t want to accept a girl who is stronger than them, which leads to the pressure

CD: How old were you when you started becoming aware that 30 was some sort of deadline?
NY:  The deadline age has always been changing. When I was 20, I feel like 25 was the age.

CD:  I feel that as well, my deadline keeps pushing back.

NY: I know me too!

STORY CLIP 3:

Norah Yang: So that day, I stayed behind and talked to a lot of interesting people. I met a 30-year-old guy who's a government official, and he had just taken a year of gap to travel and figure out what's the purpose of his life. I met a 40-year-old yoga instructor, who was also a mom of three, and she just started to practice fire tricks at Burning Man.  I met an 80-year-old grandpa who has been going to Burning Man for 14 years, just experience the unbounded creativity, the unstrained energy, and unconditional love. 

And that day I left the camp, feeling I had gotten my Superman cape back.  And one month later I had my 30th birthday, and after that I celebrated with trying loads of new things.

Clara Davis:  Norah met people on all different paths at Burning Man and it refreshed her perspective on what turning 30 could mean.  I wanted to hear more about the new goals she set for herself, and all the firsts she's continued to have, without the pressure of this imaginary deadline.

INTERVIEW:

Clara Davis: When you were describing your decision to go to Burning Man you were saying that it was a bit of a bucket list item, but when you left Burning Man, there was some transformation that you had experienced, right? You sort of saw the value in your voice and you came back re-inspired to do things differently and for the first time.  Do you still feel the same way?

Norah Yang: Before I went to Burning Man, I thought that it was going to be the last crazy thing that I'm ever gonna do.  I wanted to really try to settle down, as soon as possible after 30. But then after that I was like, I don't need to give myself an invisible boundary, I still want to keep my own pace.  Last year, I tried live streaming, TV programs and this and that. This year I've started to do stand-up in Japanese.

I really wanted to explore what's possible. Japanese, is a whole different world in terms of the art of comedy. Actually, the traditional stand-up form doesn't work well, they have their own temple, they have their own way of thinking.  I watch so many TV shows, I know so much history plus everybody after they know that I speak Japanese, they will ask me; Oh, so do you also do that in Japanese? I was like, I'm gonna change the answer from no to yes, I'm doing that.

CD: Do you have a motto that you go by or you live by?
NY: I actually don't have one specific motto, but there's one sentence that I really find insightful: You are the average of the five people that you spend the most time with.

You need to surround yourself with people you respect, who can show you some insight, who can bring you a different worldview.  That's similar to the concept that every woman should have a female mentor, who you can really rely on and then get life advice.  That would be really helpful.

CD: In your story, you talk about Chinese women coming to 30 and being expected to talk in terms of ‘we’ instead of ‘I.’  I'm curious if you have become a ‘we’ or if you're still an ‘I’ and If you think it's possible to become a ‘we’ without losing so much of the ‘I’?

NY: So I started dating this guy, he's a comedian, who does stand-up in Chinese.  I was like: oh, I'm gonna try someone new, way younger!

CD: Is he way younger? 

NY: He’s like six years younger. But I'm very appreciative because he supports me of being an independent woman.  He is like, If your career goes better, I'm totally fine of being an home husband.

So he's accepting all of my—what other people might call crazy ideas—and he's being super awesome. I am still an ‘I’ because I'm not married and I don't have a kid yet...checking, I'm not pregnant.  But I'm not against starting a family, but then I'm still a person besides the family. So when I'm giving workshops later on down the road, I will still tell other females, I can do this as a female comedian and you can do this as well.  You are not a mom of three kids, you are yourself. And that would be my dream world in the end.

CD: It's really validating your theories, all along that you don't have to compromise...

NY: You just need to wait for that person to graduate from kindergarten, but you can grow your own ideal boyfriend. 

CD: Grow your own like a Chia pet!  Like a Chia boyfriend.

NY:  It will grow into whatever you want!

CD: Norah, thank you so much for coming in and talking to us, I hope that you keep doing all these amazing firsts and making people laugh!

NY: Clara, it's my pleasure to be here and spend a lovely time with you with great woman versus woman communication.  You nailed it!

END OF INTERVIEW

Clara Davis: A special thanks to Norah Yang for sharing her story with us.  Today's episode featured clips from her story, but you can listen to the full version at www.unravelstorytelling.com. 

This podcast is produced and edited by Sarah Boorboor with original music and post-production by Ricardo Valdez.  We're recording in the Nowness Studio in the city by the sea, Shanghai. I'm your host and the founder of Unravel: Clara Davis.  Thanks for being a part of our story.

Next week on Unravel, hear Tendayi Chivero on uncovering a family secret that spanned decades and continents…

Tendayi Chivero: Fast forward to 2010 and I'm living in London and working and I get a phone call while I’m out for drinks with friends.  I go outside to answer and it's a phone call from my mother. She says, “You'll never guess who have just received a letter.”

My obvious first reaction was: it’s 2010 who sends letters?

Show Notes: Burning Man that “7-day crazy survival challenge in the dessert” Norah mentions, is a network united in the pursuit of a more creative and connected existence. ‘Leftover Women’ ( 剩女) is a term that refers to women who remain unmarried in their late twenties and beyond. You can read more about the term / social phenomenon and Norah’s insights on it in an article she published on Medium in 2016. Mamahuhu is a cross-cultural comedy platform mixing Chinese and Western elements. They are a super funny, talented group. Check out Mamahuhu’s YouTube channel.